[Transcript edited for accuracy and clarity.]
The following episode was recorded in a closet somewhere near Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

Its content is intended for everyone.

We hope you will tune in to listen to this show so you can learn more about how to make accessibility a part of what you do every day, and build an accessibility mindset.

[Intro music]

Hello and welcome to Talking Accessibly, a podcast from the DAO, the Digital Accessibility Office at UNC Chapel Hill.

I’m your host Craig Hayward, a Digital Accessibility Consultant in the DAO. On episodes of this podcast, we plan to bring you news, resources and interviews from people from the Carolina community and more from the world of digital accessibility to help you make your content more accessible and help you develop an accessibility mindset.

Think of this show as a kind of audio news and resource love letter from our office, the Digital Accessibility Office.

On this episode, we thought it might be a good idea to talk about accommodations for accessibility.

Our office, the DAO, sometimes gets email messages and comments, sent through the feedback form on the website that aren’t about digital accessibility as much as they are about students or staff needing accommodations to interact with digital content.

That’s not really our office’s job, but it is the job of an affiliated office. One who is part of the accessibility process here at UNC Chapel Hill.

That would be the university compliance office. They do much of the heavy lifting to make sure all students, faculty and staff at UNC Chapel Hill have accommodations and support to access digital and physical resources.

Need a textbook in an alternate format? That’s their job. Need some assistive technology so you can use your computer to do your work? That’s their job also, along with many other things.

Have an issue with a UNC website or some digital document not being accessible for your needs?

That’s where we come in. To clear up some of the confusion of roles in our offices, we thought it would be great to sit down with someone who could help us clarify the roles better between our two departments, to help people better understand things.

We offer you an Accessibility Conversation with Tiffany Bailey, Director of Equal Opportunity and ADA Coordinator at UNC Chapel Hill.

Someone who has a great deal of knowledge and day-to-day experience in accommodations and all kinds of accessibility, digital and physical.

With, that said, let’s get this conversation and this episode of Talking Accessibly started.

>> CRAIG: Okay, so I’m here today with Tiffany Bailey, and I’m so thrilled and happy to have you here today about a conversation in accessibility.

So how are you today?

>> TIFFANY BAILEY: I’m good, Craig, thanks for having me. I’m really excited about it as well. It’s nice too. Nice to chat with you.

>> CRAIG: Yeah. It’s awesome. Um, can you introduce yourself as if someone else were introducing you?

>> TIFFANY: Sure. I’m Tiffany Bailey. I’m the Director of Equal Opportunity and Americans with Disabilities Act Coordinator in Equal Opportunity and Compliance, which will be shifting a little bit in terms of our office change. As folks who have seen in the recent reorganization, um, Equal Opportunity and Compliance is going to be reporting up through the General Counsel.

And so I anticipate, uh, a name change forthcoming, uh, to more of a University Compliance Office. So more to come on that. But, uh, that’s so that’s that’s who I am.

>> CRAIG: Okay.

So a little about, I’d like to know a little bit where you came from, your journey in accessibility and how did how did you get to where you are today?

How did you get to be this Director of this office and things? What, how did that happen?

>> TIFFANY: Yeah, I think Disability Services as a profession or Accessibility Services as a profession is very interesting.

And I think that you probably all experience this as well with even the digital accessibility realm, is that there’s no real same path. And, um, so folks kind of come to it from many different areas.

So for my path was, so as an undergraduate student, I was really involved in Student Government, Residence Life. I decided to go to graduate school, um, to get my Master’s in Student Affairs in Higher Education.

>> CRAIG: Oh.

>> TIFFANY: Um, which is great. And I think it’s prepped me. Prepped me well. Um, I had the great fortune to have one of the best mentors in graduate school, Rosemary Creston, or Rose, as I call her, the former, um, Director of Disability Resources at Colorado State.

Yeah, that’s where I did my graduate graduate work. Um, Rose is also, uh, an individual with a disability, and I’m an individual with a disability.

And so in graduate school, I started to explore my disability identity a little bit more. And through that, I approached Rose as another.

You know, she has a physical disability. And the first thing she said to me was, I’ve been waiting for you to come and talk to me.

So, yeah, I see. Yeah. It’s great. So from there, we developed an amazing, just kind of mentorship. And for me, it was about exploring my own disability identity, thinking about, you know, and also, you know, talking about Higher Ed. And, you know, she really planted the seeds for me and was like, have you ever thought about doing this work as a profession?

You know? And I said, I don’t think so, because I’m not sure that I can live it every day and work it every day. Like there’s just just a lot that kind of goes, goes on with that. So, um, but where I was at is working in Residence Life and running a residence hall, which so many transferable skills there.

So when I graduated, I left for a position at UNC Greensboro in the, uh, in Residence Life, running a residence hall. I made connections there.

I kind of developed the reputation of working, of doing great work with students with disabilities, even though I wasn’t. I was working with the whole student population right in the residence hall and not necessarily specific.

Um, and a position opened in their Accessibility Office. I applied, and the rest is history.

Uh, it’s been, I was there, until, um.

I was the Assistant Director in their office and Interim Director for a period of time until about 2011.

And then in 2011, I came to UNC, um, and I was an Assistant Director in the Accessibility Office until 2013 when I became the Director of the office.

I was in that role until 2022, when I then was fortunate enough to get this job in Equal Opportunity and Compliance. And so my whole background up until that time had been doing disability, um, student disability support resources and campus wide accessibility stuff.

And so in this, in that new role, then I, um. Got to experience more with employee accommodations, which I hadn’t done to date.

I just, um. So then and then, as you know, as of January 1st, 2024, the Accessibility Resource Office merged back up under me in the, in EOC.

Um, and here we are. So it’s it’s been. Yeah, it’s been fun.

I have seen. Yeah, it’s been fun. I was just going to say things have shifted a lot during the time that I’ve worked in the profession.

I’m sure you could probably say the same thing.

>> CRAIG: Yeah, I can say that.

And, you know, I like you. My path to get here was different, too. And so it’s really interesting, I just, I love the, I love the stories about how people come to this.

I just, I enjoy where, I enjoy everybody. I kind of enjoy people’s life stories about their work because I have found that, you know, nine times out of ten people I meet, they didn’t they they aren’t doing the job they intended.

They aren’t on the career path they were intended to go when they started. They just ended up there. It’s just like, yeah, that’s what I try to tell people that I’m like.

I’m like, I try to tell like, like my kids and other people and stuff that I talk to. It’s like, don’t worry about where you are right now. You may be somewhere else tomorrow.

And that’s good. You know, you have all those skills, like you were saying, even with your skills for residence life. To bring that forward to this point is so cool.

It’s so cool how much that, like, life just kind of like, envelops you and brings all this stuff to you. You don’t realize it’s like it’s really cool. So.

>> TIFFANY: It is really cool.

Yeah. Agreed.

>> CRAIG: You have a wonderful, that’s a wonderful history.

I mean, I, I’ve learned a little bit more about you too today, so it’s really nice.

I really like this. Um, so beyond that, I really want to interview today because your office and our office have complementary roles to help users. We’re not the same, but we’re aligned.

So, um, I wanted to help trying to kind of clarify for anyone out there what your office does in totality compared to, like, maybe our office, but maybe more just about kind of what your office does.

Because often times people get confused about our, our different roles, our different roles in the Digital Accessibility Office and your office.

And that’s always where it’s like, okay, these are the things. So what kind of things does your office do?

What kind of things do you do?

>> TIFFANY: Yeah. So thank you I think that’s great.

I you know, I do say that we kind of have, uh, Digital Accessibility Office, Facilities and Equal Opportunity and Compliance amongst other folks like Transportation and Parking.

We each have a little bit of a role, right, in accessibility across campus, kind of embodying this idea of, you know, access is a University responsibility.

So, um, not just the responsibility of our offices.

Um, but our office comes into play where we do more individualized accommodation support, for students, faculty, visitors, applicants, you know, and that’s for disability, religion and pregnancy.

So we are, um, kind of the first point of contact for accommodations, um, on campus.

And then in my role as the ADA Coordinator, you know, I do assist in overseeing kind of our larger campus efforts.

Um, just in terms of helping to facilitate, you know, working on a transition plan.

You know, I’m chairing the Accessible Carolina Committee, which Chelsea is on, um,

which is a committee of key campus stakeholders that looks at, um, accessibility across campus.

And this year we focused on kind of particular, particular goals.

And so, you know, so all that to say is that, you know, through my office’s work, more on the individual accommodations side, you know, we may be, um, we’re working on trying to get folks to implement Universal Design practices.

>> CRAIG: Okay.

>> TIFFANY: Um, and you know, we.

We’ll know if a student faculty staff member has difficulty accessing anything that’s a digital accessibility.

But you all are overseeing kind of that policy.

The day-to-day digital accessibility efforts, um, across campus with web, with the new Title II DOJ regulations coming out, um, and all of your support, which is so freaking amazing for um, faculty and, and other staff, I just encouraged our team to take some trainings with you all, um, on making sure that content is accessible.

Um, and you all are such wonderful experts and partners in that and also product accessibility if we’re utilizing any kind of new software due process.

And so, um, that’s how I kind of I would describe our roles as being, you know, complementary.

We’re working towards the same goal, but we each have kind of our own individualized roles within it, so I hope that makes sense. Is that how I.

That’s how I see it, right. So yeah.

>> CRAIG: What’s kind of your definition of an accommodation?

This is always something that gets asked to different people or me. It’s like, what what is an accommodation?

What does that mean to somebody.

>> TIFFANY: Yeah. So.

>> CRAIG: Sorry to put you on the spot. I’m sorry.

>> TIFFANY: No no no no. I’m just saying, there’s so many ways to this.

>> CRAIG: I know there is another. I just want. Yeah. I’m sorry. Yeah. I’m just like.

Yeah.

>> TIFFANY: No, no, I mean, I think what I first think is it depends.

>> CRAIG: Okay.

>> TIFFANY: Well I mean at but you know, I think what we’re looking at, you know, more specifically like for students is, you know, uh, use of, um, screen reading software, making sure that a professor’s content is accessible to JAWS or other types of screen reading software, um, which we partner a lot with you all on assisting the faculty in that regard, because we will, you know, um, send out materials to a third party to assist, right, with putting it in our correct format if we, you know, if we need to if the format isn’t already available in an accessible format, um, we’ll assist with, you know, the faculty with their support as well in remediating, helping to remediate some of their materials.

If a student is enrolled and needs access, you know, we do ask faculty and to play a role in that as it’s, you know, is their their content as well.

Um, so it could be something like that.

There could be exam accommodations like extended time, low distraction computer use so people can use their, um, software.

I would say examples on the employee side might be, uh, schedule modification, like the ability to work a hybrid schedule based on condition, um, modified hours, potentially it could include equipment.

Um, it may also include, um, you know, just ensuring that whatever they’re using in their day-to-day is accessible.

And, you know, a screen reading software can, can read that.

So it’s more of that kind of individualized support.

>> CRAIG: Okay. I just wanted to get an idea of that better.

I often try to describe that to folks.

You know, I’ve had a lot of exposure to different accommodations for different people in different circumstances.

And I’m it’s always just trying to get that ballpark definition.

Like if I talk to somebody like elevator speech, like, how would I describe this to somebody like what this is?

And like that’s always where it comes back to for me.

>> TIFFANY: Yeah, I often use that kind of like an accommodation is is something that assists in eliminating a barrier to access.

Right. Like to get, you know, kind of, you know, without giving specifics or something like that.

But it is it is kind of hard to it’s hard. So it can be hard to frame.

>> CRAIG: Yeah. But I also try to I also try to connect it to people.

Like to make them like you wear eyeglasses. I wear eyeglass, you know, it’s like, what are eyeglasses? Eyeglasses are an accommodation essentially, because it really are allowing me to overcome some kind of barrier that I have to something to some information by allowing me to read it or see it or whatever, or perceive it, or might need it for other reasons, but it helps me to be able to do those things.

>> TIFFANY: Yes. That’s great. Yeah.

>> CRAIG: Yeah. Definitely. Okay.

So. What are you… does your office have any other, your department have any other plans coming up with accessibility?

What are some things or what are some goals over the horizon or even an accessibility plan if you have something thought about?

I don’t know.

>> TIFFANY: Yes. So.

We have a lot on the horizon. I, my team will tell you that I thrive in with change, which is interesting and I, I like to change things.

If people have ideas about how to make it better,

>> CRAIG: okay.

>> TIFFANY: We will want to do that.

So we have, uh, large project tracker that we have happening right now.

Um, which is wonderful. But one of the large projects we have is we’re getting ready to implement a new Disability Management System for um employees, visitors and students and applicants, um, to help us with, um, just overall management of when requests come in, documentation, scheduling examinations, if you’re a student approved for testing accommodations on the the with through the EOC Testing Center.

And so really this is taking a couple of different systems and melding them into one.

Um, Simplicity’s Accommodate is used nationally by folks um, and is fairly recognized Disability Management software.

And so we are with our partners, um, HRIM, who’s helping us and um, a lot of other campus partners actually, to help us implement it, we’re going to be rolling out the employee module soon, which is going to be really wonderful.

And then, uh, we’re going to be rolling the student module out after that.

But we are right now looking at our kind of communication plan.

So that’s one big thing that we’re going to be kind of focusing on as we as we move forward.

I think we did a lot with the ARS EOC merger.

Like we’ve got new policy, new website, um, we’ve updated our materials.

Obviously we’re going to have to update them again with our with our new kind of name change and things like that.

But, you know, I think what I’ll say is that we’re constantly looking at ways to make things more efficient to communicate more clearly to constituents about.

For example, we have something that’s going to launch of like what to expect when you meet with an Accommodation Specialist to talk about accommodations.

Um, so those are the fairly large things that are on the horizon.

There’s also a actually there’s one where there’s a project, um, Operational Excellence is helping us look at testing accommodations specifically.

Um, and we’re really excited about that because there are lots of challenges with that, right? If you think about space, the number of students with disabilities increasing, that’s that’s a trend that has been ever since I’ve been in the profession.

Right. As an increase of a trend in terms of students connecting with our office.

Same with employees as well.

Um, so they’re looking at kind of our EOC Testing Center and taking a deep dive into how we might, you know, changes we might might make.

So anyway, I expect some of that to be coming out this fall, which I think is really exciting, some really good benchmarking.

Yeah. Yeah.

>> CRAIG: Congrats. That’s awesome.

That’s really awesome. And you mentioned the, you know, the growing, you’ve mentioned the growing disability population, but what, what what what percentage do you think if you had a ballpark like UNC we have of this, of folks that are using accommodations? I mean percentage-wise staff, students, faculty, whatever.

>> TIFFANY: So for staff or employees, I should say faculty and staff.

>> CRAIG: Yes, that’s true.

>> TIFFANY: I can just no, no, that’s okay.

I can just give you a number there because we did our recent, um, EO report in which over 7% of our employees have identified as having a disability. Have self-identified, which I think is, that exceeds because I think 7.1% is what, um, you know, that’s like is was a benchmark for, EO and so we exceed that. I think, from the student side, I need to crunch the numbers, but I would say that it right now I believe student disability.

Just student disability there are about 2600 students connected with yeah with us and which includes graduate students and professional students as well.

>> CRAIG: Okay.

>> TIFFANY: Uh, out of, you know, 30,000 students.

Yeah.

>> CRAIG: That’s still a good percentage.

>> TIFFANY: It is a good percentage.

>> CRAIG: It is. It really is.

Yeah. I was just curious to get a feel. Get a feel for how many people you’re serving and what you’re doing.

And your work is really appreciated. I mean, it’s, some of it’s a bit thankless sometimes and, you know, you do things but it’s but your what you provide for services is worthwhile.

It really is. I mean that’s what I always say that I always like all of our services are worthwhile.

>> TIFFANY: Yeah, yours too.

>> CRAIG: They’re important to people.

>> TIFFANY: Yeah. We couldn’t do it without you all.

I think one of the, the things that I think we’re fortunate enough on our campus, and I don’t know if people realize is to have a Digital Accessibility Office.

>> CRAIG: Yes.

>> TIFFANY: Period. And so, um, I think it’s absolutely wonderful because I don’t, you know, oftentimes if that’s as you know, if that’s not there, then it’s which is enough in itself, right?

For one office that falls then on the EOCs or the other IT folks within specific areas.

And so, um, I feel like from the work that you all have done, we are so far ahead of the curve in some ways, which is phenomenal.

Yeah.

>> CRAIG: Thank you. That’s good.

Yeah. And I feel like because of your work, we’re kind of there, too, I think.

I think we just. I think we’re a good team. I think if I want to think of winning, it’s a good it’s a good team.

We have good services on campus because of the different departments that really work together and the coordinated effort.

And somebody gave the, somebody had the insight to think that and really just to this and establish this, you know, I know, I know it, I know it, took it took a lawsuit and things to get us kind of here.

>> TIFFANY: Yeah.

>> CRAIG: But you know, we’re here. So…

>> TIFFANY: That’s so true.

>> CRAIG: And we’re getting people there.

>> TIFFANY: It’s interesting to have some historic perspective on that too, right, like so 2015 Simon and I were like, maybe we should start getting some people together to talk about, you know, digital accessibility, you know, and then the complaint and then the formalization of the office.

And so I’ve been been there through it and, um, it’s yeah, I don’t know.

Yeah. It’s really exciting.

>> CRAIG: That’s ten years ago. That’s ten years ago.

I mean, we always talk about the 2019. We, we were celebrating five years from that with a 2019 official kind of founding of our office.

But it’s really goes back to 2015 with your efforts here and Simon’s efforts.

I mean, to think about to have the foresight to think of this, that’s really that’s kind of amazing.

>> TIFFANY: Yeah. You know, I think our, our state and professional association, the Association on Higher Education and Disability is really wonderful.

And so we kind of knew that other folks were kind of having these conversations.

Um, and you know, what I will say is we may, yeah, we definitely wouldn’t have been able to be where we like where you all are now.

I mean, it’s up there. I mean, it was helpful to get resources and things and,

>> CRAIG: Oh yeah.

>> TIFFANY: But yeah, I’ve. Yeah, I’ve been at Carolina for longer than I anticipated actually.

>> CRAIG: Yeah. Isn’t that everybody’s story?

>> TIFFANY: It’s so true. I know, yeah. And then I just.

You know, I never left. I haven’t left, and I love what I do, so.

>> CRAIG: Yeah, yeah. And if you love what you do that makes it that’s. You know, that’s the reason. I joke with people, because I tell them about my story a little bit about when I worked at the North Carolina Library for the Blind, and Physically Handicapped, which became which is now North Carolina, State Library of North Carolina, Accessible Books and Library Services.

We kind of changed that name about five years ago or so, but I came to that job thinking, I’ll be here about two years.

I’m just it’s an in-between. I’m this is my fourth thing. I’ll be here.

I stayed for 15 plus years because it really.

And it’s accessibility that pulled me in. It was like, it was the library that pulled me in, the people, it was the stories and it was the people. It was it was helping people that I could help in any way I could to do this.

That’s what, that’s what drew me over here to UNC. So it’s kind of it’s all that circle of life.

That big, that big plan you had. That big plan you had didn’t actually happen, and now it’s now this. But I’m happy with this plan.

You know, I really am. And I think, you know, and that’s the good part.

>> TIFFANY: Yeah, same.

>> CRAIG: Whoo. Enough talk about shop for the moment, okay.

One last little bit of tidbit here. It’s very important. Anything you like to do when you’re not at your day job?

I like to throw that in to the people. Yeah. What do you do outside of work?

Get away from this. How do you relax or if you relax, I don’t know.

>> TIFFANY: I try. Yes, I do, I do, uh, I like to garden, uh, this year.

>> CRAIG: Oh, awesome.

>> TIFFANY: This year, yeah. I’m gonna, um, I have seeds. I’m starting my garden from from scratch.

Essentially, I ordered some seeds, and I’m

>> CRAIG: Oh nice.

>> TIFFANY: Moving forward with that.

So I’m. I’m really excited about that. Um, I cook, I listen to a lot of true crime podcasts, uh, which, uh, is it’s fun.

I do I also have an 11-year old and, um, three dogs.

>> CRAIG: Okay, that’s all I need to know. That’s, you know, that’s life.

>> TIFFANY: They keep me busy.

Um, and, uh, that so that’s, you know, super fun.

And I love spending time with my family. So those are some of the big things.

>> CRAIG: Yeah. Oh. That’s wonderful.

>> TIFFANY: Yeah.

>> CRAIG: Anyway, I think that’s all I need for today, so, I mean, I think we can just we’ll just go ahead and end this, end this interview, end this conversation with Tiffany Bailey.

Thank you for joining me. I really appreciate you. It’s just it’s so, so wonderful to get to talk to you and meet this way.

>> TIFFANY: Yeah I agree, I agree. This has been really fun and I appreciate you.

And if folks are listening, feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions.

Um, happy to help. Yeah.

>> CRAIG: Thank you.

Thanks. All right.

[water from streaming rushing]

>> CRAIG: From the DAO Desk: Accommodations

Who are they good for? On this episode we keep with the theme of accessibility in general.

And think about accommodations. What are accommodations and who are they good for?

Think about someone who needs eyeglasses to read or see things.

Those eyeglasses are an accommodation because the person using them needs them to see clearly or read things.

Just like those eyeglasses, assistive technology, a specialized type of computer software and hardware,

is an accommodation that allows the person using it to do their work, studies, or just live their daily lives, by helping them compensate for issues caused by a disability.

If a staff member, faculty or student needs a way to adapt their computer, tablet or smartphone to access content, that’s an accommodation made by offering assistive technology, a student need to get textbook or reading materials in an alternative reading format like Braille.

That’s an accommodation. More generally, there is a phenomena that is called the curb cut effect.

This is when an accommodation or feature intended to help those with a disability of some kind is used by a larger group than the people it was intended for, regardless of impairment. In 1990, the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed.

It was intended to put into law requirements that would help those with disabilities.

The first effort to do this was in municipalities across the United States, putting in wheelchair accessibility ramps on buildings and putting into sidewalks similarly inclined surfaces called curb cuts to allow wheelchair users easier access to walkways.

Where the curb cut effect happened was when, soon afterwards, many other groups of people discovered that they could use those same curb cuts intended for wheelchair users to push things like infants, strollers, luggage with wheels, or delivery people’s carts up onto sidewalks, or having to lift them over the side of the curb.

The same effect has happened with push button automated doors to buildings.

If my arms are filled with packages or I have a cart to push into a building, I can also use that opener.

It has been long enough with these accessibility accommodations in place, that most people just consider them a regular part of life. In the digital world think about how many times you might watch a television program or movie and turn on closed captioning, a feature originally intended for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing.

To understand better, understand the dialog of the actors, or you are in a situation where you need to keep the volume turned down.

This is again the curb cut effect happening where these things become just ordinary, everyday features we all use without even thinking about using them.

We all just use them. Why? Because they’re useful for everyone, not just those with a disability.

So who are accommodations good for? Everyone.

Accessibility of every kind is good for everyone.

That’s the end of this episode of Talking Accessibly.

For more information on this program, training and anything else digital accessibility related, please reach out to the UNC Chapel Hill Digital Accessibility Office,

the DAO.

On the web – DigitalAccessibility, one word, dot UNC. edu.

Or by email at [email protected]

[closing music]

Talking Accessibly is a production of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill’s Digital Accessibility Office or DAO, part of the UNC, ITS Office of Customer Experience and Engagement.

Opening music, One Fine Day, and closing music, Coffee and Conversation, are from the Step Up and Podcast YouTube channel.

Transitions starring nature are from Zap Splat.com.

All are offered royalty free and for open use to podcasters.

We hope you have enjoyed this show and will come back for more episodes about how to build an accessibility mindset and think more about digital accessibility every day.

This show is available on our podcast host provider platform Podbean, Spotify and our website.

I’m Craig Hayward and on behalf of the DAO.

Thanks for listening.

[music fades out]